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Post by Fistor on Sept 25, 2008 23:40:01 GMT -5
I agree with Fistor, and find your view is somehow distorted. With all due respect, you're 18 effing years old. You'd do well to get a lot more green off of you before you say something so pretentious and condescending. 18 year olds aren't allowed to express their viewpoints anymore? What the hell did he say that was so "pretentious and condescending"? He said he thought plunger's view was distorted. How is that in any way "pretentious and condescending"? It's an opinion. Even 18 year olds are allowed to have them. |
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Post by Fistor on Sept 25, 2008 23:45:32 GMT -5
Not calling you a whiner at all. I'm just saying if that's the worse thing I have to go through as a white male, I can deal with it. I don't feel I should pay for the sins of my fathers either, but if this is the way it is, so be it. There is a hell of a lot of racism/persecution/oppression still going on that I will never experience, so I don't mind "sacrificing" an extremely small amount of my life if it makes things better as a whole. it's not just your life, it's the lives and lifestyles of our children. and if you mean, "getting better as a whole", to be white kids acting like gansta wanna be thugs, it's awesome. Yes, that's exactly what I mean. I yearn for the day in which every white kid acts like a gangsta wannabe thug. You read me perfectly. Honestly, if my son one day decides to tilt his cap to the right a little, I'm not going to shit my pants and hold an intervention. I really don't mind the cross-pollination of cultures. I think learning more about different people and cultures and being tolerant of them can only be a good thing. |
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Post by The Biff Lebowski on Sept 26, 2008 5:44:44 GMT -5
18 year olds aren't allowed to express their viewpoints anymore? What the hell did he say that was so "pretentious and condescending"? He said he thought plunger's view was distorted. How is that in any way "pretentious and condescending"? It's an opinion. Even 18 year olds are allowed to have them. He can express his viewpoints all he'd like (nice strawman). What he said was pretentious and condescending because it was just so dismissive. It was elitist in nature. Admit it, at 18 you thought you knew everything too. Then life set in. |
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Post by airhornahole on Sept 26, 2008 7:26:18 GMT -5
it's not just your life, it's the lives and lifestyles of our children. and if you mean, "getting better as a whole", to be white kids acting like gansta wanna be thugs, it's awesome. Yes, that's exactly what I mean. I yearn for the day in which every white kid acts like a gangsta wannabe thug. You read me perfectly. Honestly, if my son one day decides to tilt his cap to the right a little, I'm not going to shit my pants and hold an intervention. I really don't mind the cross-pollination of cultures. I think learning more about different people and cultures and being tolerant of them can only be a good thing. A tipped hat is not culture. It is fashion. Music, cooking, history, etc. is culture. The big afro's of the 60's and 70's was not culture, it was a fashion fad. Culture is not something that changes with the products being sold at the "new cool store". If that was the case, Benercrombie would be a textbook example of white culture. How scary does that sound. Just as our parents were criticized for their long "hippie" hair, and we were criticized for the parachute pants (you know you had them), our kids will be criticized for their fashion. Someday they will look back and say "wow, did we look like idiots". It's a parents choice how far they want to let their kids get into the fashion trends. Reasons may very from budget to bigotry, but it is still their choice. Myself, I agree with Plunger. I wouldn't let me kids look like a gangsta. But my reason is that I don't want people to think that they are morons. Because when I see some kid with his pants hanging down and his hat tipped, the first thought is "That kids an idiot and will be flipping burgers or in prison for the next 30 years." Call me a short minded bigot if you will. I don't care, it's my choice and my kids. |
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Post by Fistor on Sept 26, 2008 10:05:14 GMT -5
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. I yearn for the day in which every white kid acts like a gangsta wannabe thug. You read me perfectly. Honestly, if my son one day decides to tilt his cap to the right a little, I'm not going to shit my pants and hold an intervention. I really don't mind the cross-pollination of cultures. I think learning more about different people and cultures and being tolerant of them can only be a good thing. A tipped hat is not culture. It is fashion. Music, cooking, history, etc. is culture. The big afro's of the 60's and 70's was not culture, it was a fashion fad. Culture is not something that changes with the products being sold at the "new cool store". If that was the case, Benercrombie would be a textbook example of white culture. How scary does that sound. Just as our parents were criticized for their long "hippie" hair, and we were criticized for the parachute pants (you know you had them), our kids will be criticized for their fashion. Someday they will look back and say "wow, did we look like idiots". It's a parents choice how far they want to let their kids get into the fashion trends. Reasons may very from budget to bigotry, but it is still their choice. Myself, I agree with Plunger. I wouldn't let me kids look like a gangsta. But my reason is that I don't want people to think that they are morons. Because when I see some kid with his pants hanging down and his hat tipped, the first thought is "That kids an idiot and will be flipping burgers or in prison for the next 30 years." Call me a short minded bigot if you will. I don't care, it's my choice and my kids. 1. Culture has nothing to do with fashion? 2. If my kid wants to dress like a gangsta, I might not like it, but I don't think I would put up a huge fuss. I dressed like an idiot in school, too. A lot of people did. So what? Who cares? It has no bearing whatsoever on what kinda career he'll have, or who he'll marry, or how many kids he'll have. So I might tell him he looks like a moron, but I'll say it with a smile. I don't recall calling anyone a short minded bigot, if that's what you're implying. |
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Post by Fistor on Sept 26, 2008 10:06:30 GMT -5
18 year olds aren't allowed to express their viewpoints anymore? What the hell did he say that was so "pretentious and condescending"? He said he thought plunger's view was distorted. How is that in any way "pretentious and condescending"? It's an opinion. Even 18 year olds are allowed to have them. He can express his viewpoints all he'd like (nice strawman). What he said was pretentious and condescending because it was just so dismissive. It was elitist in nature. I didn't read it that way at all, but maybe I missed the tone. |
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Post by The Biff Lebowski on Sept 26, 2008 10:16:56 GMT -5
That ain't all you missed
And he ain't comin' back
Lido
woah oh oh oh woah oh oh oh
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Post by airhornahole on Sept 26, 2008 10:21:04 GMT -5
A tipped hat is not culture. It is fashion. Music, cooking, history, etc. is culture. The big afro's of the 60's and 70's was not culture, it was a fashion fad. Culture is not something that changes with the products being sold at the "new cool store". If that was the case, Benercrombie would be a textbook example of white culture. How scary does that sound. Just as our parents were criticized for their long "hippie" hair, and we were criticized for the parachute pants (you know you had them), our kids will be criticized for their fashion. Someday they will look back and say "wow, did we look like idiots". It's a parents choice how far they want to let their kids get into the fashion trends. Reasons may very from budget to bigotry, but it is still their choice. Myself, I agree with Plunger. I wouldn't let me kids look like a gangsta. But my reason is that I don't want people to think that they are morons. Because when I see some kid with his pants hanging down and his hat tipped, the first thought is "That kids an idiot and will be flipping burgers or in prison for the next 30 years." Call me a short minded bigot if you will. I don't care, it's my choice and my kids. 1. Culture has nothing to do with fashion? No, it does not. Fashion is a fad, not culture.2. If my kid wants to dress like a gangsta, I might not like it, but I don't think I would put up a huge fuss. I dressed like an idiot in school, too. A lot of people did. So what? Who cares? It has no bearing whatsoever on what kinda career he'll have, or who he'll marry, or how many kids he'll have. So I might tell him he looks like a moron, but I'll say it with a smile. If that works for you, great. It doesn't work for me. Isn't America a great place?I don't recall calling anyone a short minded bigot, if that's what you're implying. You didn't. but, some would just from my opinions. |
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Post by Dr. Stupid on Sept 26, 2008 10:34:13 GMT -5
A tipped hat is not culture. It is fashion. Music, cooking, history, etc. is culture. The big afro's of the 60's and 70's was not culture, it was a fashion fad. Culture is not something that changes with the products being sold at the "new cool store". If that was the case, Benercrombie would be a textbook example of white culture. How scary does that sound. Just as our parents were criticized for their long "hippie" hair, and we were criticized for the parachute pants (you know you had them), our kids will be criticized for their fashion. Someday they will look back and say "wow, did we look like idiots". It's a parents choice how far they want to let their kids get into the fashion trends. Reasons may very from budget to bigotry, but it is still their choice. Myself, I agree with Plunger. I wouldn't let me kids look like a gangsta. But my reason is that I don't want people to think that they are morons. Because when I see some kid with his pants hanging down and his hat tipped, the first thought is "That kids an idiot and will be flipping burgers or in prison for the next 30 years." Call me a short minded bigot if you will. I don't care, it's my choice and my kids. 1. Culture has nothing to do with fashion? 2. If my kid wants to dress like a gangsta, I might not like it, but I don't think I would put up a huge fuss. I dressed like an idiot in school, too. A lot of people did. So what? Who cares? It has no bearing whatsoever on what kinda career he'll have, or who he'll marry, or how many kids he'll have. So I might tell him he looks like a moron, but I'll say it with a smile. I don't recall calling anyone a short minded bigot, if that's what you're implying. First, fashion has everything to do with culture. How do people identify others with the same culture? How they look! If I walked into the Bob ('the' club in gr) with a pink polo and levis, people will think of me as a bro ("white" culture). But if I wore a pit stained t with sweat pants, there would be a compleatly different reaction because I don't fit with the culture of the club. But I digress. The point is people look at what you wear as an indication as to what culture you hail from. Just as an example of what people wear in high school not mattering, I knew a guy who wore all black, parachute pants, dyed his mowhawk black, and wore eyeliner. Rediculus, right? Now he owns a business and looks as such. Just my two cents. |
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Post by airhornahole on Sept 26, 2008 11:56:10 GMT -5
I guess I see culture as more of a historical thing. What defined American's? Not what defines white American's today. That I consider fashion and prejudice, not racism, but prejudice. The pre-judging of someone.
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Post by The Biff Lebowski on Sept 26, 2008 13:05:06 GMT -5
2. If my kid wants to dress like a gangsta, I might not like it, but I don't think I would put up a huge fuss. I dressed like an idiot in school, too. A lot of people did. So what? Who cares? It has no bearing whatsoever on what kinda career he'll have, or who he'll marry, or how many kids he'll have. So I might tell him he looks like a moron, but I'll say it with a smile. When you dressed like an idiot you probably wore tight jeans, white hi-tops with the tongues out, black concert shirts and a leather jacket, right? The people you emulated weren't good role models but they weren't exactly provokers of violence. This trend of dressing like a gangsta stems from the ignorant music whose message is to use women, beat them, and treat them like "ho's". They glorify using a gun to force your opinions and kill/steal, to not co-operate with law enforcement on any level, and the constant denigration of anyone viewed as a rival. |
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Post by Queenie on Sept 26, 2008 13:29:50 GMT -5
Sagging/grunge was in when my 19 and 22 year olds were in jr. high/high school. I would not let them wear those types of clothes. They wore what I brought them. I think our job as parents (and yes it is a job) is to teach our children to function in an adult world. By letting our children "be individuals" we would be allowing them to behave in an ill-mannered type of behavior. All those fads in fashion, i.e. grunge, goth, etc., are a sign of a cult or gang. What parent would want their child to be a follower of some stupid cult/gang. Going along with everything the members want to say and do. If people want to let their children do and wear what they want, they are setting themselves up for a great heartache. You can use the old "they can't be controlled forever." Well they will as long as their asses are under my roof. I will be the controller of my children. I will know where they are and who they are with. I will watch their activities with a microscope, because if I don't they are left to raise themselves. That is what is wrong with our society today. Parents do not handle the daily lives of their children because they are too wrapped up in their own lives or just plain lazy. If you don't want to raise them, don't have them.
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Post by airhornahole on Sept 26, 2008 14:11:56 GMT -5
Sagging/grunge was in when my 19 and 22 year olds were in jr. high/high school. I would not let them wear those types of clothes. They wore what I brought them. I think our job as parents (and yes it is a job) is to teach our children to function in an adult world. By letting our children "be individuals" we would be allowing them to behave in an ill-mannered type of behavior. All those fads in fashion, i.e. grunge, goth, etc., are a sign of a cult or gang. What parent would want their child to be a follower of some stupid cult/gang. Going along with everything the members want to say and do. If people want to let their children do and wear what they want, they are setting themselves up for a great heartache. You can use the old "they can't be controlled forever." Well they will as long as their asses are under my roof. I will be the controller of my children. I will know where they are and who they are with. I will watch their activities with a microscope, because if I don't they are left to raise themselves. That is what is wrong with our society today. Parents do not handle the daily lives of their children because they are too wrapped up in their own lives, too interested in being their "friend", afraid to discipline, or just plain lazy. If you don't want to raise them, don't have them. beautiful +1. I would just add the one comment. Adn by discipline, I don't mean beat. |
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Post by Queenie on Sept 26, 2008 14:18:52 GMT -5
Sagging/grunge was in when my 19 and 22 year olds were in jr. high/high school. I would not let them wear those types of clothes. They wore what I brought them. I think our job as parents (and yes it is a job) is to teach our children to function in an adult world. By letting our children "be individuals" we would be allowing them to behave in an ill-mannered type of behavior. All those fads in fashion, i.e. grunge, goth, etc., are a sign of a cult or gang. What parent would want their child to be a follower of some stupid cult/gang. Going along with everything the members want to say and do. If people want to let their children do and wear what they want, they are setting themselves up for a great heartache. You can use the old "they can't be controlled forever." Well they will as long as their asses are under my roof. I will be the controller of my children. I will know where they are and who they are with. I will watch their activities with a microscope, because if I don't they are left to raise themselves. That is what is wrong with our society today. Parents do not handle the daily lives of their children because they are too wrapped up in their own lives, too interested in being their "friend", afraid to discipline, or just plain lazy. If you don't want to raise them, don't have them. beautiful +1. I would just add the one comment. Adn by discipline, I don't mean beat. +1 right back at ya. Yes you are exactly right. I meant to include that. Edit: By discipline I don't mean beat, but I do spank my children. Hell we got beat and turned out okay. |
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Post by airhornahole on Sept 26, 2008 14:24:11 GMT -5
beautiful +1. I would just add the one comment. Adn by discipline, I don't mean beat. +1 right back at ya. Yes you are exactly right. I meant to include that. Edit: By discipline I don't mean beat, but I do spank my children. Hell we got beat and turned out okay. Beat and spank and two different things |
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Post by speedbump on Sept 26, 2008 15:52:23 GMT -5
18 year olds aren't allowed to express their viewpoints anymore? What the hell did he say that was so "pretentious and condescending"? He said he thought plunger's view was distorted. How is that in any way "pretentious and condescending"? It's an opinion. Even 18 year olds are allowed to have them. He can express his viewpoints all he'd like (nice strawman). What he said was pretentious and condescending because it was just so dismissive. It was elitist in nature. Admit it, at 18 you thought you knew everything too. Then life set in. I never said I knew everything (nice strawman). |
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Post by mainerliser on Sept 26, 2008 16:37:39 GMT -5
beautiful +1. I would just add the one comment. Adn by discipline, I don't mean beat. +1 right back at ya. Yes you are exactly right. I meant to include that. Edit: By discipline I don't mean beat, but I do spank my children. Hell we got beat and turned out okay. It's good to hear that other parents discipline their children too. I swear some days I feel like the only one that still does that. My children know the difference between right and wrong. And you're right Queenie! I WILL know where they are, who they are with, and what they are doing. They WILL NOT go out on school nights, be disrespectful to adults, and slack their responsibilities. And that is another big point...teaching responsibility. I don't think that happens anymore either. What happened to real parenting? I could go on and on but my original point was, it's nice to see someone else takes parenting seriously. Off my soapbox! |
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Post by Fistor on Sept 26, 2008 22:43:59 GMT -5
I thinks it's a great idea to try to control everything my kids say and do. What they wear, what they watch, and how they talk, too. I will start ruling over them with an iron fist immediately. Surely they will never rebel against my hardline dictatorship, like I did with my parents. As long as I don't let them ever live their own lives or have any freedom whatsover, I think everything will turn out great.
Surely me controlling every aspect of their lives is perfect training for them to live in the real world.
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Post by The Biff Lebowski on Sept 27, 2008 5:36:33 GMT -5
Hey! Look who found the hyperbole button!
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Post by The Biff Lebowski on Sept 27, 2008 5:43:56 GMT -5
I never said I knew everything (nice strawman). Surely you must understand that an 18 year old lecturing a 40 something widower with 5 kids, a wife, and a mortgage about his world views gives this impression. |
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Post by speedbump on Sept 27, 2008 11:39:20 GMT -5
I never said I knew everything (nice strawman). Surely you must understand that an 18 year old lecturing a 40 something widower with 5 kids, a wife, and a mortgage about his world views gives this impression. So I'm lecturing now? Look at me go. I can give a "lecture" in, what was that, like two sentences? |
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Post by Queenie on Sept 27, 2008 12:32:35 GMT -5
Surely you must understand that an 18 year old lecturing a 40 something widower with 5 kids, a wife, and a mortgage about his world views gives this impression. So I'm lecturing now? Look at me go. I can give a "lecture" in, what was that, like two sentences? Are you going to sit there and syntax us to death, or are you actually going to post an opinion or rebuttal? Which one are you, Obama or McCain? |
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Post by plungerhand on Sept 27, 2008 13:16:10 GMT -5
I thinks it's a great idea to try to control everything my kids say and do. What they wear, what they watch, and how they talk, too. I will start ruling over them with an iron fist immediately. Surely they will never rebel against my hardline dictatorship, like I did with my parents. As long as I don't let them ever live their own lives or have any freedom whatsover, I think everything will turn out great. Surely me controlling every aspect of their lives is perfect training for them to live in the real world. There is a happy meduim between controlling and turning a blind eye. What i was referring to, was the kids I see walking the streets of West Nashville, and Springfield(TN) and various other communities I frequent. When there are 5 police just to keep the peace at a JR High School football game somebody has to recognize there is a problem with the youth today. Not the lil' Fistor's or anybody else's children on this board. It's always somebody else's kids... |
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Post by Mad Dog on Sept 27, 2008 14:06:52 GMT -5
Plungerhand wrote:
Yes, and the thing I have always tried to do as a parent to accomplish this is to assume that at what ever age my child was, that they are highly intelligent and capable of comprehension, but that they just don't know yet. I think this approach is good because it doesn't patronize your child and it allows room for them to make their own decisions yet still have alot of parental in-put.
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Post by Fistor on Sept 27, 2008 15:24:46 GMT -5
I thinks it's a great idea to try to control everything my kids say and do. What they wear, what they watch, and how they talk, too. I will start ruling over them with an iron fist immediately. Surely they will never rebel against my hardline dictatorship, like I did with my parents. As long as I don't let them ever live their own lives or have any freedom whatsover, I think everything will turn out great. Surely me controlling every aspect of their lives is perfect training for them to live in the real world. There is a happy meduim between controlling and turning a blind eye. What i was referring to, was the kids I see walking the streets of West Nashville, and Springfield(TN) and various other communities I frequent. When there are 5 police just to keep the peace at a JR High School football game somebody has to recognize there is a problem with the youth today. Not the lil' Fistor's or anybody else's children on this board. It's always somebody else's kids... There are cops walking around our high school football games, too. Not dismissing the idea that you may have a much more serious gang problem there than we have here, I don't know. Just saying cops at football games isn't an uncommon sight. There definitely is a happy medium between controlling and turning a blind eye, and I think the vast majority of parents fall in that happy medium. I was concerned about Queenie's comments about her kids being under a microscope while they're under her roof. That seemed a bit on the controlling side of the spectrum. I have experience, unfortuntately, in this area. My mother and father tried to control my every move (strangely, they did allow me to dress like an idiot, though), and I haven't spoken to either of them in onver 2 years. I can honestly tell you that I do not like my parents, in the least. Kids rebel, some sooner than later, when a parent tries to take away their freedom on a grand scale. You may think that you're trying to protect them, but you can't smother them. I'm sure I read Queenie's post wrong, and that she really didn't mean to say she fully intends to control every aspect of her kids lives, but that's really how it came across. What also came across was the idea that if a parent doesn't adopt this iron-fisted approach, he or she is turning a blind eye. Absolutely untrue, of course. Happy medium words. Oh, and also - apparently several of you think that a kid who dresses in baggy clothes and wears tilted ball caps is somehow trying to emulate a gang member. I don't see that. I see a kid dressing in the Hip Hop fashion. Believe it or not, Hip Hop is not all about gangbangin' and hos. To believe that is sheer ignorance. It's like saying every kid who listens to Heavy Metal has a bent toward Satanism. Equally ridiculous. |
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Post by Queenie on Sept 27, 2008 16:39:46 GMT -5
I don't have an iron fist, fistor, I have a watchful eye. I do watch and listen to my children. They have their "free" time, but I know where they are and who they are with. In our community, maybe not yours, there is a lot of peer pressure to tempt our children.
The ballgame I went to the other night was a Jr. High game, 6th, 7th and 8th graders, and it was a complete quandry eff. Kids running around, fighting, knocking other people down, and their parents were NO where to be seen. I am just saying that as long as my children are under my roof and until they reach the age of adulthood, they will abide by my rules. They will also act like they were raised, with manners and courtesy. It is hard for me to believe that keeping the reins on a child would promote rebellious behavior. I talk frequently to all 8 of my children and know what is going on in their lives. Even the 2 that are out of the house (19 and 22). But they also know that Momma has been through a lot in her 42 years and is quite experienced when it comes to life, a hell of a lot more than a 3-22 year old.
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Post by Mad Dog on Sept 27, 2008 17:34:12 GMT -5
Since Queenie and Plunger Hand are married, it sounds like they are pretty much on the same page when it comes to raising kids. And that is pretty much ninety percent of the battle when it comes to raising kids. Trust me I know. Exactly that problem was ninety percent of the reason why I'm divorced and why we bickered so heavily.
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Post by mainerliser on Sept 27, 2008 18:00:13 GMT -5
Fistor, there is a big difference in having an "iron fist" and discipline. I teach my kids right and wrong, cosequences for wrongs, and responsibility. I don't govern their every move, but I do expect to know where they are, who they are with, and what they are doing. That is an involved parent. They may rebel, but there still will be consequences.
Working for many years in a pediatric practice, the biggest problems I saw were parents no disciplining their children, and giving them too much freedom in an effort to be a "friend". You are no friend to your children if you don't teach them responsibility.
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Post by Fistor on Sept 27, 2008 18:04:58 GMT -5
Fistor, there is a big difference in having an "iron fist" and discipline. I know that, thanks. |
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Post by mainerliser on Sept 27, 2008 18:16:03 GMT -5
Fistor, there is a big difference in having an "iron fist" and discipline. I know that, thanks. How very dismissive of you. I'm hurt.  |
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