Iranians are renouncing Islam: Paranoid Mullah

[scooterfanatic]

[Mad Dog]

wow, they sure are burning up this post

[scooterfanatic]

You'd think this would get more response. Maybe it just speaks for itself. My Iranian friend showed me this video. He didn't convert to Zoroastrianism but left Shi'a Islam and all religion altogether. There are suburbs near Karaj (a city just west of Tehran) where the wealthy live that look just like East Grand Rapids where Sharia law doesn't apply. Pretty much in Iran if you're rich enough you can buy your freedom. My friend said you can do anything you want in these neighborhoods.

You have to remember that Islam is a foreign religion to Iran. It was imposed by the 1979 revolution, and is a marker of arab culture, not persian. For thousands of years most of Iran was Zoroastrian (a monotheistic religion as old as, if not older, than Judaism). Interest in the pre-Islamic Persia is growing among the younger generations.

[Mad Dog]

Zoroastrianism?? I thought I'd heard of most every religion, but you got me, I've never heard of it. Was it founded by King Nebuchadnezzar? Or does it go back further too the Assyrian Empire?

[Mad Dog]

You need to explain further what Zoroastrianism is.

[scooterfanatic]

Via Wikipedia:

Zoroastrianism is the religion and philosophy based on the teachings ascribed to the prophet Zoroaster (Zarathustra, Zartosht). Mazdaism is the religion that acknowledges the divine authority of Ahura Mazda, proclaimed by Zoroaster.

As demonstrated by Zoroastrianistic creed and articles of faith, the two terms are effectively synonymous. In a declaration of the creed — the Fravarānē — the adherent states: "…I profess myself a devotee of Mazda, a follower of Zarathustra." (Yasna 12.2, 12.8)

While Zoroastrianism was once the dominant religion of much of Greater Iran, the number of adherents has dwindled to not more than 250,000 Zoroastrians worldwide, with concentrations in India and Iran (see demographics below). However, according to some other sources, the population is roughly ten times that.

Basic beliefs

* There is one universal and transcendental God, Ahura Mazda, meaning The Supreme Wisdom, the one Uncreated Creator to whom all worship is ultimately directed. The term Ahura Mazda was constructed by Zoroaster as a combination of a masculine and a feminine word as if to underline the lack of a specific gender, making the divinity radically different from pre-Zoroastrian polytheistic deities.
* Reflecting Zoroastrianism's geographical and cultural origin between the monotheistic religions of the Middle East and the pantheistic faiths of South Asia, and reflecting the religion's pluralistic literary origins, contemporary Zoroastrianism features interpretations of the concept of Ahura Mazda covering both monotheism, cosmic or mental dualism, Pantheism and Panentheism. The Pantheist school of Zoroastrianism, as taught by contemporary scholars such as Parviz Varjavand, is in this on-going theological debate strictly referred to as Mazdayasna, meaning "wisdom worship" in contemporary English. It is here important to stress that despite these radical theological differences, dualist and Pantheist interpretations of Zoroastrianism have always co-existed, both in Iran and India, throughout the millennia within the same organizational framework.
* Ahura Mazda's creation — evident as asha, truth and order — is the antithesis of chaos, evident as druj, falsehood and disorder. The resulting conflict involves the entire universe, including humanity, which has an active role to play in the conflict.
* Active participation in life through good thoughts, good words and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep the chaos at bay. This active participation is a central element in Zoroaster's concept of free will, and Zoroastrianism rejects all forms of monasticism.
* Ahura Mazda will ultimately prevail, at which point the universe will undergo a cosmic renovation and time will end (cf: Zoroastrian eschatology). In the final renovation, all of creation — even the souls of the dead that were initially banished to "darkness" — will be reunited in Ahura Mazda.
* In Zoroastrian tradition the malevolent is represented by Druj, the "Destructive Principle", while the benevolent is represented through Ahura Mazda's Asha, the instrument or "Bounteous Principle" of the act of creation. It is through Spenta Mainyu that Ahura Mazda is immanent in humankind, and through which the Creator interacts with the world. According to Zoroastrian cosmology, in articulating the Ahuna Vairya formula Ahura Mazda made this ultimate triumph evident to Druj.
* As expressions and aspects of Creation, Ahura Mazda emanated seven "sparks", the Amesha Spentas ("Bounteous Immortals"), that are each the hypostasis and representative of one aspect of that Creation. These Amesha Spenta are in turn assisted by a league of lesser principles, the Yazatas, each "Worthy of Worship" and each again a hypostasis of a moral or physical aspect of creation.

Death rituals

* Death and burial: Zoroastrians believe that on the fourth day after death the human soul leaves the body and the body remains as an empty shell. Mourners clean and dress the corpse and pose it on a hard slab, all according to custom. Then they bring in a dog with two spots painted on its forehead, as if it had four eyes. If the dog barks, the person is still alive. If not, he is dead.[2]Traditionally, Zoroastrians disposed of their dead by leaving them atop open-topped enclosures, called Towers of Silence, or Dokhmas. Vultures and the weather would clean the flesh off the bones, which were then placed into an ossuary at the center of the Tower (usually a well). Fire and earth were considered too sacred for the dead to be placed in them. While this practice is continued in India by some Parsis, it had ended by the beginning of the twentieth century in Iran. In India, burial and cremation are becoming increasingly popular alternatives as pollution has killed off the vulture population. Alternatively, Parsis have created solar concentrators to intensify the sun's rays and help burn the corpses[3].

Other characteristics

* The symbol of fire: The energy of the creator is represented in Zoroastrianism by fire and the Sun, which are both enduring, radiant, pure and life sustaining. Zoroastrians usually pray in front of some form of fire (or any source of light). (It is important to note that fire is not worshiped by Zoroastrians, but is used simply as symbol and a point of focus, much like the crucifix in Catholicism. For details, see Fire temple)
* Proselytizing and conversion: Parsi Zoroastrians do not proselytize. In recent years, however, Zoroastrian communities in Iran, Europe and the Americas have been more tolerant towards conversion. While this move has been supported officially by the Council of Mobeds in Tehran, Iran, it has not been endorsed by the priesthood in Mumbai, India.
* Inter-faith marriages: As in many other faiths, Zoroastrians are strongly encouraged to marry others of the same faith, but this is not a requirement of the religion itself. Some members of the Indian Zoroastrian community (the Parsis) contend that a child must have a Parsi father to be eligible for introduction into the faith, but this assertion is considered by most to be a violation of the Zoroastrian tenets of gender equality, and may be a remnant of an old legal definition (since overruled) of Parsi. This issue is a matter of great debate within the Parsi community, but with the increasingly global nature of modern society and the dwindling number of Zoroastrians, such opinions are less vociferous than they were previously.

Although older (9th/10th century BCE, see Zoroaster), Zoroastrianism only enters recorded history in the mid-5th century BCE. Herodotus' The Histories (completed c. 440 BCE) includes a description of Greater Iranian society with what may be recognizably Zoroastrian features, including exposure of the dead. (See Towers of Silence).

Perhaps more importantly, The Histories is a primary source of information on the early period of the Achaemenid era (648–330 BCE), in particular with respect to the role of the Magi. According to Herodotus i.101, the Magi were the sixth tribe of the Medians (until the unification of the Persian empire under Cyrus the Great, all Iranians were referred to as Mede or Mada by the peoples of the Ancient World), who appear to have been the priestly caste of the Mesopotamian-influenced branch of Zoroastrianism today known as Zurvanism, and who wielded considerable influence at the courts of the Median emperors.

Following the unification of the Median and Persian empires in 550 BCE Cyrus II and later his son Cambyses II curtailed the powers of the Magi after they had attempted to seed dissent following their loss of influence. In 522 BCE the Magi revolted and set up a rival claimant to the throne. The usurper, pretending to be Cyrus' younger son Smerdis, took power shortly thereafter. Owing to the despotic rule of Cambyses and his long absence in Egypt, "the whole people, Persians, Medes and all the other nations" acknowledged the usurper, especially as he granted a remission of taxes for three years (Herodotus iii. 68).
The Behistun Inscription.
The Behistun Inscription.

According to the Behistun Inscription pseudo-Smerdis ruled for seven months before being overthrown by Darius I in 521 BCE. The "Magi", though persecuted, continued to exist. A year following the death of the first pseudo-Smerdis (named Gaumata), a second pseudo-Smerdis (named Vahyazdāta) attempted a coup. The coup, though initially successful, failed.

Whether Cyrus II was a Zoroastrian is subject to debate. It did however influence him to the extent that it became the non-imposing religion of his empire, and its beliefs would later allow Cyrus to free the Jews from captivity and allow them to return to Judea when the emperor took Babylon in 539 BCE. Darius I was certainly a devotee of Ahura Mazda, as attested to several times in the Behistun inscription. But whether he was a follower of Zoroaster has not been conclusively established, since devotion to Ahura Mazda was (at the time) not necessarily an indication of an adherence to Zoroaster's teaching.

Darius I and later Achaemenid emperors, though acknowledging their devotion to Ahura Mazda in inscriptions, appear to have permitted religions to coexist. Nonetheless, it was during the Achaemenid period that Zoroastrianism gained momentum. A number of the Zoroastrian texts that today are part of the greater compendium of the Avesta have been attributed to that period. It was also during the later Achaemenid era that many of the divinities and divine concepts of proto-Indo-Iranian religion(s) were incorporated in Zoroastrianism, in particular those to whom the days of the month of the Zoroastrian calendar are dedicated. This calendar is still used today, a fact that is attributed to the Achaemenid period. Additionally, the divinities, or yazatas, are present-day Zoroastrian angels. (Dhalla, 1938).

Almost nothing is known of the status of Zoroastrianism under the Seleucids and Parthians who ruled over Persia following Alexander the Great's invasion in 330 BCE. According to later Zoroastrian legend (Denkard, Book of Arda Viraf), many sacred texts were lost when Alexander's troops invaded Persepolis and subsequently destroyed the royal library there. Diodorus Siculus's Bibliotheca historia completed c. 60 BCE, which is to a great extent an encapsulation of earlier works, appears to substantiate Zoroastrian legend (Diod. 17.72.2–17.72.6). According to one archaeological examination, the ruins of the palace of Xerxes bear traces of having been burned (Stolze, 1882). Whether a vast collection of (semi-)religious texts "written on parchment in gold ink", as suggested by the Denkard, actually existed remains a matter of speculation, but is unlikely. Given that many of the Denkards statements-as-fact have since been refuted among scholars, the tale of the library is widely accepted to be fictional. (Kellens, 2002)

Zoroastrianism had a significant influence on Greek and Roman philosophy. Several ancient Greek writers such as Eudoxus of Cnidus and Latin writers such as Pliny the Elder praised Zoroastrian philosophy as "the most famous and most useful". Plato learned of Zoroastrian philosophy through Eudoxus and incorporated some of its teachings into his own Platonic realism.[4] In the 3rd century BC, however, Colotes accused Plato's The Republic of plagiarizing parts of Zoroaster's On Nature, such as the Myth of Er.[5][6] Plato's contemporary, Heraclides Ponticus, wrote a text called Zoroaster based on Zoroaster's philosophy in order to express his disagreement with Plato on natural philosophy.[7]

[edit] Late antiquity

When the Sassanid dynasty came into power in 228 CE, they aggressively promoted the Zurvanite form of Zoroastrianism and in some cases persecuted Christians and Manichaeans. When the Sassanids captured territory, they often built fire temples there to promote their religion. The Sassanids were suspicious of Christians not least because of their perceived ties to the Christian Roman Empire. Thus, those Christians loyal to the Patriarchate of Babylon — which had broken with Roman Christianity when the latter condemned Nestorianism — were tolerated and even sometimes favored by the Sassanids. Nestorians lived in large numbers in Mesopotamia and Khuzestan during this period.

A form of Zoroastrianism was apparently also the chief religion of pre-Christian Caucasus region, or at least was prominent there. During periods of Sassanid suzerainty over the Caucasus the Sassanids made attempts to promote the religion there as well.

Well before the 6th century Zoroastrianism had spread to northern China via the Silk Road, gaining official status in a number of Chinese states. Remains of Zoroastrian temples have been found in Kaifeng and Zhenjiang, and according to some scholars,[who?] remained as late as the 1130s, but by the 13th century the religion had faded from prominence in China. However, many scholars[who?] assert the influence of Zoroastrianism (as well as later Manicheism) on elements of Buddhism, especially in terms of light symbolism.

[edit] Middle Ages

In the 7th century the Sassanid dynasty was overthrown by the Arabs. Although some of the later rulers had Zoroastrian shrines destroyed, generally Zoroastrians were included as People of the Book and allowed to practice their religion. Mass conversions to Islam were not imposed,[8] in accordance with Islamic law, though some scholars debate the validity of these claims.[9] However, there was a slow but steady social pressure to convert.[10] The nobility and city-dwellers were the first to convert, with Islam more slowly being accepted among the peasantry and landed gentry.[11]

Many Zoroastrians fled, among them several groups who eventually migrated to the western shores of the Indian subcontinent where they finally settled. According to the Qissa-i Sanjan "Story of Sanjan", the only existing account of the early years of Zoroastrian refugees in India, the immigrants originated from (greater) Khorasan. The descendants of those and other settlers, who are today known as the Parsis, founded the Indian cities of Sanjan and Navsari, which are said to have been named after the cities of their origin: Sanjan (near Merv, in present-day Turkmenistan) and the eponymous Sari (in modern Mazandaran, Iran). (Kotwal, 2004)
Zoroastrian school children in Kerman, 1903.
Zoroastrian school children in Kerman, 1903.

In the centuries following the fall of the Sassanid Empire Zoroastrianism began to gradually return to the form it had had under the Achaemenids, and no evidence of what is today called the "Zurvan Heresy" exists beyond the 10th century. (Boyce, 2002) Ironically, it was Zurvanism and Zurvan-influenced texts that first reached the west, leading to the supposition that Zoroastrianism was a religion with two deities: Zurvan and Ahura Mazda (the latter being opposed by Angra Mainyu).

[edit] Modern era

Today there are significantly fewer Zoroastrians than there once were. Over the centuries adherents of the faith have dispersed in all directions, but greater concentrations of Zoroastrians may still be found in the Indian subcontinent and in Iran.

[Mad Dog]

This is good, anything that pisses off the Mullah's makes me happy, this religion, however much gobilty gook it is, has to be better than extreem Islam.

[scooterfanatic]

Aug 4, 2008 18:18:18 GMT -5 Mad Dog said:

This is good, anything that pisses off the Mullah's makes me happy, this religion, however much gobilty gook it is, has to be better than extreem Islam.

Right you are. Cyrus the Great used the principles of Zoroastrianism when ruling Babylon and created the concept of freedom of speech/freedom of religion. This further influenced later Greek philosophers and ultimately the founding fathers. Zoroastrianism really has a bigger role in our country's history than most realize.