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Post by Jo on Sept 26, 2008 5:55:04 GMT -5
she seems slow. which is not an especially good thing. she seems like a lot of things. the most obvious being unqualified for her position. |
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Post by hotzester on Sept 26, 2008 9:22:47 GMT -5
Becky, what experience would you prefer she have? What is it that, to you, disqualifies her?
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Post by Jo on Sept 26, 2008 9:48:59 GMT -5
Becky, what experience would you prefer she have? What is it that, to you, disqualifies her? are you fucking kidding me? listen, i'll get back to you with factual examples later. i'm a bit short on time to list all of her shortcomings and political assclownery. |
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Post by hotzester on Sept 26, 2008 10:09:40 GMT -5
I look forward to it.
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Post by Jo on Sept 26, 2008 11:56:25 GMT -5
ok, so let's put this in perspective. this is someone who, if a situation comes up where McCain kicks the bucket or something, will lead our country and be our representative to the rest of the world.
while i do think her time as mayor of Wasilla was, overall, a successful term it's still just a mayoral position. i'm not willingly going to endorse someone with so little time in the national scene and whose views are so backwards. University of Idaho graduate, NRA member, member of a tongue-speaking church, and governor of a underpopulated state that nobody gives a shit about isn't my ideal VP candidate. it's her ethics and how out of touch she seems to be that are so off-putting to me.
politically, i think her budgeting in Alaska is comendable but her knowledge of foreign policy is slim. i get the feeling she's going along with what McCain's platform just to get into office and her real views differ from his.
i grew up really conservative and my parents are die-hard Republicans but we are all in agreeance that she's an embarassment and Republicans need to get their shit together, as a whole.
(sorry i promised a list and brought nothing. i'm a bit distracted today.)
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Post by Rock Monster on Sept 26, 2008 12:20:29 GMT -5
while i do think her time as mayor of Wasilla was, overall, a successful term it's still just a mayoral position. i'm not willingly going to endorse someone with so little time in the national scene and whose views are so backwards. University of Idaho graduate, NRA member, member of a tongue-speaking church, and governor of a underpopulated state that nobody gives a shit about isn't my ideal VP candidate... Ok, I haven't been following this thread too closely, but as the election nears, I may start following more.... and I don't know who I'm voting for yet. That being said, I have to disagree with you here. "So little time in the National Scene..." - She's running for Vice President, not President. Yeah, McCain might Die, and she may be in charge, but what if she dies? How much experience will that person have. ... and how much experience does Obama really have? Is the University of Idaho thing a bad thing for her? NRA Member is a bad thing? "tounge speaking church..." Personally I don't care what church they do or don't go to. Religion shouldn't matter. "governor of an underpopulated state..." What does population of a state matter? Would it be better if she were governer of Georgia? Kentucky? |
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Post by fetusfacedwindbag on Sept 26, 2008 12:40:33 GMT -5
I don't generally like to enter political discussions because - honestly - neither party is right or wrong. Intelligent people can put a spin on just about anything to make their favorite candidate/ party seem attractive. Personally, I believe that Palin is a bad decision for McCain's ticket because I see it (and many others see it this way too) as a publicity stunt. McCain picked her up because she had the cleanest record, nobody living in the largest portion of the United States had ever heard much of her, and he needed something "edgy" because he was being labeled "old". I'd prefer to have a condidate - be it male/ female or black/ white - that was chosen for their capacity to lead. I don't think that the correct running mate was chosen, but I also think that choices are really slim in this day and age. Who REALLY wants to be a politician any more? You can have more wealth and power in big business anyway. I think that the people that would make incredible politicians are out doing "better things" for themselves. People are greedy, and they don't care for this country as much any more so much as they care about their own pockets.
Rome fell, people. Our country needs to "man up" and take some serious action before we shove our country down the tubes.
Ok. So maybe that got a little off topic, but I don't usually visit the Touchy Subjects forum and had to get it all out.
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Post by hotzester on Sept 26, 2008 12:45:51 GMT -5
There's a saying about "what if's", but the exact wording of it escapes me at present. What you say is true, but it's also true of Joe Biden, or any other VP candidate. That said, it's also not a BAD thing to be next in line for the Oval Office. Guys like John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Gerald Ford, Teddy Roosevelt, and Harry Truman were ALL VP's before they became President. I'd have thought that those who are concerned with her experience would be happy that the #2 on the ticket will have some time toward the top before being thrown into the White House. (Not to mention, Obama's fans are hoping for "change", yet Joe Biden is as much a Washington insider as anyone ever has been.)
Mayor of a town, regardless of size, is an "executive" position. (As is Governor.) This means she doesn't sit back and just vote for or against something. Executives have to make serious, difficult decisions, regardless of levels. This is why of our 43 presidents, only 15 have been Senators before ascending to the White House. Senators are NOT executives.
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Post by airhornahole on Sept 26, 2008 13:09:32 GMT -5
Maybe she thinks Greek is speaking in tongues.  |
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Post by motorboatking on Sept 29, 2008 22:45:09 GMT -5
.
she seems like a lot of things. the most obvious being unqualified for her position.[/quote]
Do you hold Obama to the same standard?
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Post by Jo on Sept 30, 2008 7:35:02 GMT -5
sorry, i've been busy lately. this will be my last post here because it's reminding me why i hate talking politics and how one-sided people are. i'll try to answer everything. about her being #2 and somehow becoming pres, the examples of Adams, Jefferson, and such are just swell but here's my point-i'm not convinced she could lead shit. all those examples you mentioned were strong candidates who obviously showed something to their presidential running-mate to convince him that they were fit for the VP position. Palin just kind of came out of nowhere suddenly and McCain picked her willy-nilly it seems. the mayor thing. MAYOR. you do realize "mayor" is just, essentially, a title right? sure they head the city council but they have no legislative powers. in a mayor-council government, a mayor does have legislative powers but only large cities have that. the governor thing ain't winning me over either. she's making executive decisions but for her state. a state that, as i've said, is under-populated and easily forgotten. i'm not an elitist, the University of Idaho thing bugs me because this is a HUGE position, VP, and i'm more comfortable with someone who went to a respected well-known college than a shmuck Idaho where potatoes 101 is a hot topic class. the church stuff, yeah i consider where she goes to church. i don't want some crazy religion nut job making our country's decisions. www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.htmlyour A) B) points. maybe it's speculation, but to imply you're ok with the pres and VP having different views is scary. you want conflict inside our government? they're REALLY conservative but we're also REALLY american and as much as we dislike voting Obama we can't stand seeing the country the way it is and we believe Obama can fuck up the country a little less than McCain. |
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Post by hotzester on Sept 30, 2008 7:47:04 GMT -5
So a mayoral position is "only" a mayoral position, the role of the governor is only significant if it's of a certain sized state, college degrees only count if they're from specific schools, and churches are important because the HUFFINGTON POST has a discussion about it (well done with a non-biased source, by the way).
And, after all of that, a "community organizer" (a position which is about as legitimate as PTA President) with zero executive experience, 4 years in the senate (two of which were spent campaigning for President), and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in new spending in the form of baby bonds, universal healthcare, etc.....all while lowering taxes for 95% of the American people...that's your guy? Makes sense.
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Post by residentialevil on Sept 30, 2008 7:59:44 GMT -5
Wait...you're holding HER church against her? What about Obama's racist "KILL WHITEY" church?
The part about the President and VP having differing views, many times a candidate will NOT pick a candidate that is just like him/her so that it will bring in voters he/she has alienated. That's hardly a new thing.
And if you blast Palin for her lack of experience and yet don't blast Obama for his lack of experience, then you might as well just admit you don't like her and be done with it. At least then you'll be honest.
Funny you're saying everyone is "one-sided" yet that seems to describe you pretty well.
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Post by Rock Monster on Sept 30, 2008 8:01:28 GMT -5
your A) B) points. maybe it's speculation, but to imply you're ok with the pres and VP having different views is scary. you want conflict inside our government? Maybe I'm wrong, but when this country was new, wasn't the Vice pres. the loser of the vote? i.e. If Obama wins, McCain would have been the VP? It was OK then, but not now? |
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Post by hotzester on Sept 30, 2008 8:04:39 GMT -5
Originally, the electors cast their votes for two people - the one who came in first was president, the one who came in second was VP. But at the time, there weren't really established opposing parties, as there are now.
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Post by lovegrenade on Sept 30, 2008 8:12:30 GMT -5
To the few people that are still trying to defend Palin, are you being serious, or are you just sticking to party lines? In the limited view that the public has had of her, she has proven herself to be clueless on national issues. If you disagree with this previous statement, please watch her most recent interview with Katie Couric. She is a former beauty queen, who it took 5 or 6 years to complete a traditionally 4 year bachelor's degree.... in Communitcations! Why is it that Republicans are continually trying to elect people that are not very smart? George Bush was a "C" student, McCain was 5th from the bottom of his class, Palin went to multiple colleges before finally getting a weak Bachelor's. Hell, I bet even Zane has a Bachelor's in Communications! Barack graduated from Harvard Law School with Honors, Biden also graduated from law school near the top of his class. These are incredibly intelligent guys who will actually look at the information available to them before making a decision. McCain and Palin are just two more intellectually average "shoot from the hip, think with your gut" Republicans. Do you really want more of that?! Eff no...
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Post by hotzester on Sept 30, 2008 8:26:39 GMT -5
I'm not sticking to party lines. In fact, when I originally registered to vote way back in 1993, I registered a democrat. It wasn't until I got older and lost some of my idealistic philosophy that I realized the world wasn't all happy and nice, and sometimes those philosophies won't work quite as planned. It was at that point when I registered as a Republican.
Oddly, I'm listening to the FBHW bit regarding the Couric interview as we type - I don't exactly take KATIE COURIC to be the non-biased media source for all things political. Didn't CBS have some sort of scandal in '04 regarding their slant?
You spelled communications wrong, Professor. Ignoring that bit of Shakespearian irony, who cares?
Bush scored a 1206 on his SAT. John Kerry scored an 1160. Do you really want to bring up which party is smarter?
If words like Harvard and Princeton impress you, then I'm sure that's pretty cool. (Oh, and in order to get into the Naval Academy, you need to be in the top 20% of your class. Just so you know.)
It isn't MY side that is fascinated by intelligence, and as such, I am not questioning it. Rather, I'm questioning their judgement and ability to produce the results they promise - and horrified that if they can somehow muster what it takes to DO those things, what it means for my family.
Again with the intelligence obsession. It's really quite comical. You brought it strong, though, I'll give you that. Unfortunately, the facts don't back up your own "think with your gut" attack.
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Post by airhornahole on Sept 30, 2008 8:26:50 GMT -5
Can anyone show me one example of a President in the last 20 years that has made campaign promises and was able to institute those promises without change or modification by the Senate and House? It doesn't matter what they say now. The true judge of the success fo a President can only be made after their first term. That is when you can determine how successful the person has been.
Palin may be new, an outsider, milf, all the titles she's been given. But, she may be able to work with teh rest of the clowns and get something done. Or, she may just sit there and be eye candy for the rest of thte old drunk congressmen and women.
You can say the same thing for the Obama / Biden camp. They sure are making a heck of alot of promises. Who knows if any will be delivered? Maybe, maybe not.
From what I have seen of this circus we call a government, it is just a bunch of 3 year old kids fighting over who's the teachers pet. All of Washington is corupt and if you think that just because someone is new that they won't be, your kidding yourself. Palin and Obama, both have their marching orders from special interest groups and so on and so forth.
You have to vote for the person who you think most matches your morals and ideals of what you want this country to be and HOPE that that person can get something done.
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Post by residentialevil on Sept 30, 2008 8:34:27 GMT -5
I'm not "defending" Palin, I'm merely pointing out the double standard in a lot of the so called "problems" people have with her, as b_e_c_k_y has demonstrated. That's why I'm saying just be honest that you don't like her and stop acting like you have problems with her, because most of her same problems can be said about Obama.
BTW, yeah Palin has looked like a dunce in some interviews. At the same time, apparently you haven't been paying attention to Obama when he's not reading from a teleprompter. When asked off the cuff questions, the dude stutters and "uhs" so much he makes Bush sound like a great speaker. Not to mention he makes about as much sense as Palin does. Yet surprisingly.....that's not something you're seeing all over the news now is it?
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Post by hotzester on Sept 30, 2008 8:39:10 GMT -5
Does anyone have any substantive disagreements with her positions, or do you not like the VICE-presidential candidate simply because she speaks with an accent?
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Post by lovegrenade on Sept 30, 2008 9:27:16 GMT -5
Does anyone have any substantive disagreements with her positions, or do you not like the VICE-presidential candidate simply because she speaks with an accent? Speaking of the accent, does she remind anyone else of the mom from Bobby's World? The accent is annoying, but that's definitely not why I don't like her. Her entire political career is riddled with allegations of abuses of power, and I'm not about to give her the benefit of the doubt when there's a chance that she will be President. She is a young earth creationist, which to me, is the ultimate demonstration of her severe lack of critical thinking abilities. Despite her Christian Values, she seems to have absolutely no problem with lying on the campaign trail in regards to her position on the Bridge to Nowhere deal. In the very limited view we've had of her, she has shown that the only thing she is capable of doing is repeating GOP talking points, regardless of whether or not they address the question answered. By the way, being in the top 20% of your high school class is not hard, and probably not even required when your father and grandfather are Admirals in the Navy. We're in an economic crisis and neither McCain nor Palin seem to have a very impressive grasp on Economics. They ARE think with your gut people, and we've all seen how that worked out over the last 8 years. Hotzester, I know there are a few party faithfuls out there like you, but the independents have seen Palin and McCain for what they are, and the polls are turning. I'm glad that you enjoy the pick, but just know that you're now in the minority thinking that it was a good one. |
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Post by hotzester on Sept 30, 2008 9:46:31 GMT -5
I don't know the Bobby's World reference, never saw it.
Allegations of abuses of power. You must mean Troopergate. Interesting that the trooper who was allegedly at the center of that debate has admitted he used a taser on his 11-year-old stepson. I don't know whether or not Sarah Palin encouraged this guy be fired, but ask yourself this - shouldn't he have been?
She's a young earth creationist, which to you, is the ultimate demonstration of her severe lack of critical thinking abilities. Wow, this is such an arrogant statement, I hardly know where to begin. She disagrees with you so she must not be capable of thought. Well done.
Her position on the Bridge to Nowhere is a bit peculiar. Lies? I don't know. Change of position? Maybe. But how does it have anything to do with the campaign? Let me ask you something - and be honest, don't look it up - what's the REAL name for the "Bridge to Nowhere"? If it's that serious of an issue, I'd imagine you'd know it without relying on Wikipedia. (And no, I didn't know it either, because it's not an issue to me.)
The only thing she's doing is repeating GOP talking points. Right, because Barack Obama is so fresh with universal healthcare, raising taxes on the wealthy, "change", ending the war, and race baiting.
If you can find information that confirms Senator McCain was literally grandfathered into Annapolis, I'd love to hear it. Until then, you're just mudslinging.
Again, I'm HARDLY a party faithful. I was a registered democrat who grew up at boot camp, and I later registered a republican. I'm not at all thrilled with McCain - I like Sarah Palin, but I think McCain is far too moderate to satisfy me.
That said, he's a THOUSAND times better for my principles than Barack Obama.
EDIT: And PS - If I'm in the "minority", so be it. I'm not one to care whether or not I'm doing what the cool kids are doing. I make my decisions based on my core values, not on what the polls suggest others are doing.
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Post by residentialevil on Sept 30, 2008 10:35:46 GMT -5
I fail to see anything from Obama's talking points that prove he has any idea how to fix the current economic problem. All he has preached is straight up socialism. If you're ok with that, so be it.
Please tell me exactly what "change" Obama is going to bring, other than not being George W. Bush or a Republican. Everything he's said has been said the last 50 years by the DNC. If you think the economy is bad now, then wait until Obama gets everything he's "promised"; things actually CAN get worse you know.
I don't even like McCain. I'm more Ron Paul than anyone. But I'm sick of the c-sucking going on for Obama. He's said absolutely NOTHING new, and the sheep eat it up.
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Post by lovegrenade on Sept 30, 2008 10:41:57 GMT -5
I don't know the Bobby's World reference, never saw it. Allegations of abuses of power. You must mean Troopergate. Interesting that the trooper who was allegedly at the center of that debate has admitted he used a taser on his 11-year-old stepson. I don't know whether or not Sarah Palin encouraged this guy be fired, but ask yourself this - shouldn't he have been? She's a young earth creationist, which to you, is the ultimate demonstration of her severe lack of critical thinking abilities. Wow, this is such an arrogant statement, I hardly know where to begin. She disagrees with you so she must not be capable of thought. Well done. Her position on the Bridge to Nowhere is a bit peculiar. Lies? I don't know. Change of position? Maybe. But how does it have anything to do with the campaign? Let me ask you something - and be honest, don't look it up - what's the REAL name for the "Bridge to Nowhere"? If it's that serious of an issue, I'd imagine you'd know it without relying on Wikipedia. (And no, I didn't know it either, because it's not an issue to me.) The only thing she's doing is repeating GOP talking points. Right, because Barack Obama is so fresh with universal healthcare, raising taxes on the wealthy, "change", ending the war, and race baiting. If you can find information that confirms Senator McCain was literally grandfathered into Annapolis, I'd love to hear it. Until then, you're just mudslinging. Again, I'm HARDLY a party faithful. I was a registered democrat who grew up at boot camp, and I later registered a republican. I'm not at all thrilled with McCain - I like Sarah Palin, but I think McCain is far too moderate to satisfy me. That said, he's a THOUSAND times better for my principles than Barack Obama. EDIT: And PS - If I'm in the "minority", so be it. I'm not one to care whether or not I'm doing what the cool kids are doing. I make my decisions based on my core values, not on what the polls suggest others are doing. So let me get this straight, you're ok with illegal abuses of power as long as it ends well? The "ends justifies the means" will make an excellent presidential policy; Bush would be honored. The funny part is that she abused her power, and still didn't get the result she wanted. Also, this was not the only abuse of power allegation that has surfaced. The Bridge to Nowhere was the Gravina Island Bridge, and the Road to Nowhere. I'm pretty well informed of all things relating to Palin. This includes reading the articles from Alaskan newspapers when Palin was supporting the bridge to the Ketchican Airport. I didn't say that McCain was grandfathered into the Naval Academy, I said that being in the top 20% of your high school class is not at all hard, and I am also sure that had he not been in the top 20% of his class, that two Admirals would have the power to get him in. They certaintly kept him from getting kicked out when he crashed expensive military planes. My reference to her repeating talking points even if they don't make sense, was coming from the following quotes. COURIC: "Why isn’t it better, Governor Palin, to spend $700 billion helping middle-class families struggling with health care, housing, gas and groceries? Allow them to spend more and put more money into the economy? Instead of helping these big financial institutions that played a role in creating this mess?" PALIN: "That’s why I say, I like ever American I’m speaking with were ill about this position that we have been put in where it is the tax payers looking to bailout. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up the economy– Helping the — Oh, it’s got to be about job creation too. Shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americas. A And trade we’ve got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive scary thing. But 1 in 5 jobs being created in the trade sector today. We’ve got to look at that as more opportunity. ALl those things under the umbrella of job creation. This bailout is a part of that." I don't mind someone disagreeing with me, they have that right. Ignoring every piece of scientific evidence available in order to believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old shows a severe lack of Critical Thinking though. She is actively IGNORING the evidence and is thus, IGNORANT. I've visited the Creation "Museum" in Kentucky, and it was the single saddest, most ridiculous think I've witnessed in my adult life. If McCain fits your principles, that's fine, vote for him. I'm just happy to see that most people are realizing that Palin was a bad pick. Not because it's popular to think that she's a bad pick, but because she actually is a bad pick. Even the conservatives are jumping off the Palin bandwagon. |
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Post by airhornahole on Sept 30, 2008 10:43:08 GMT -5
Hotzester and Lovegrenade, 15 SECOND FIGHT!!!!!
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Post by plungerhand on Sept 30, 2008 10:57:28 GMT -5
Hotzester and Lovegrenade, 15 SECOND FIGHT!!!!! My money's on hotzester!!! of course Love G is not allowed to pull the pin... |
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Post by lovegrenade on Sept 30, 2008 11:06:04 GMT -5
Hotzester and Lovegrenade, 15 SECOND FIGHT!!!!! My money's on hotzester!!! of course Love G is not allowed to pull the pin... I wouldn't feel right taking your money Plunger. I have yet to lose a boxing match, and even though it's been a few years since I had an official fight, I'm pretty sure I could throw together a mean 15 seconds; with or without a grenade. |
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Post by hotzester on Sept 30, 2008 11:06:08 GMT -5
That's not at all what I said - what I said was that I don't know if there was an abuse of power, any more than you do. We'll have to see what the investigation reveals. I continued by saying IF there was an abuse against a man that admits to tasering a child, I have no issues with that because I don't want that guy protecting the population.
At least you've taken the initiative to read up - that's more than I can say for most! Impressive.
You most certainly DID imply that McCain didn't need the grades due to his family ties:
Again, it's KATIE COURIC - you've got to take that with the same grain of salt as Charlie Gibson or even Al Franken.
You don't believe in creationism. Great. Neither do I, completely. But I don't blindly believe the THEORY of evolution, either. I think both should be taught fairly, so people can make up their own minds. (And if man evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? Why have some monkeys opted out?)
McCain doesn't completely fit my principles. Truth be told, I'd have much rather seen Romney on the ticket. But Obama is nowhere close to my principles, and his affiliations with radicals are a little unnerving for me. I like McCain on defense, which is the biggest issue to me. Without a good defense, the other crap doesn't matter.
Was Sarah Palin a bad pick? I like her, but I've yet to find a good deal on ebay for a crystal ball. Only time will tell. Thank you, though, for at least presenting an intelligent, educated debate on the issue - it's better than "Bush stole 2000" and "she talks funny".
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Post by hotzester on Sept 30, 2008 11:08:59 GMT -5
And as for a 15 second fight, no thanks. I've found LG's debating skills to be honorable - we just disagree. Ain't nuffin' wrong with dat!
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Post by Queenie on Sept 30, 2008 11:10:12 GMT -5
And as for a 15 second fight, no thanks. I've found LG's debating skills to be honorable - we just disagree. Ain't nuffin' wrong with dat! +1 for sportmanship |
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