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Post by hotzester on Jun 23, 2008 9:52:49 GMT -5
I'll just stick with my beliefs. Science automatically discredits anything that has no factual, tangible evidence. Faith just believes...
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Post by speedbump on Jun 23, 2008 15:09:35 GMT -5
I'll just stick with my beliefs. Science automatically discredits anything that has no factual, tangible evidence. Faith just believes...That's kind of the problem. It believes with no basis to its beliefs. Science discredits your faith, so instead of believing the science you turn to ignorance. I don't have a problem with some religions, like Catholics, that at least accept evolution. But if you believe the Universe is 6000 years old you've got a problem. Experiments have been done to show evolution and gene mutations, over a period of about 40,000 generations. If you can turn a blind eye to examples of evolution in our lifetime then there is nothing I can do to help you. |
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Post by cassierae on Jun 23, 2008 16:55:58 GMT -5
Wait, so you'd rather believe in something imaginary than something that is well researched and documented consistently? I'm just going to believe there's a giant Ant Queen and worship it because I have faith. I can't see it but it's there because I say it's there!. Sorry for being a complete A-hole this afternoon but you say the universe is 6000 YEARS OLD?! The earth alone is millions of years old, if not billions. Go and research Pangaea, or Out of Place Artifacts (Some of them are a bunch of S) Or how about you look at fossils and ice ages and how long humans HAVEN'T been here...check out the evidence of earth before humans and early primitive life. Sorry to rant, I just woke up and have yet to put together a non-ranting reply...but really. All I'm trying to say after all is, it's fine and dandy to have a belief but never turn your eye to researching something other than what your mom and dad taught you what was "right" growing up. There's a lot still unanswered but it's really interesting all the same. :-)
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Post by hotzester on Jun 23, 2008 17:48:30 GMT -5
What I'm saying is this - In a nutshell, because despite what our post counts may say, none of us REALLY have enough time to debate it properly....
Science can never actually disprove religion. Faith is defined as "belief that is not based on proof". (This is one definition, anyway.) Science may say "People evolved from ants", but faith says "I know that's what you say, but I believe in something else." In the end, one of us will be proven wrong.
The flaw is that science is not infallible. Some scientists say that my SUV is creating global warming. Others do not. Some scientists said the earth is flat. But then science changed it's mind and decided that it was round. To the contrary, faith hasn't so much as batted in eye in over 2000 years.
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Post by speedbump on Jun 23, 2008 18:03:32 GMT -5
What I'm saying is this - In a nutshell, because despite what our post counts may say, none of us REALLY have enough time to debate it properly.... Science can never actually disprove religion. Faith is defined as "belief that is not based on proof". (This is one definition, anyway.) Science may say "People evolved from ants", but faith says "I know that's what you say, but I believe in something else." In the end, one of us will be proven wrong. The flaw is that science is not infallible. Some scientists say that my SUV is creating global warming. Others do not. Some scientists said the earth is flat. But then science changed it's mind and decided that it was round. To the contrary, faith hasn't so much as batted in eye in over 2000 years. So all the religious wars don't constitute "batting an eye" to you? Thousands dead because different groups fought over their own believes in various types of faith? We can't have a debate because you won't use logical arguments. |
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Post by hotzester on Jun 23, 2008 18:24:17 GMT -5
No, no...I mean each faith hasn't changed their views, whereas science has. Obviously the various faiths have different philosophies.
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Post by Zig on Jun 23, 2008 20:18:47 GMT -5
No, no...I mean each faith hasn't changed their views, whereas science has. Obviously the various faiths have different philosophies. You're essentially saying that progress is a flaw. Of course science has changed and improved, that's the proper response to new information becoming available. If science ever stops progressing then that would be cause to worry. |
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Post by Zig on Jun 23, 2008 20:22:08 GMT -5
if you don't believe in [god] and instead think you came from a rock and a monkey I am very pleased with this entirely accurate, intelligent, and fair summation of the evolutionary process. |
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Post by speedbump on Jun 23, 2008 20:55:59 GMT -5
No, no...I mean each faith hasn't changed their views, whereas science has. Obviously the various faiths have different philosophies. Just like different scientists have different views? Way to make a point. They vary on some issues, but no real scientists disbelieves evolution. |
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Post by Philly Mike on Jun 24, 2008 21:03:08 GMT -5
I am glad to see this post here, I was going to this section to post such a thing. I feel that it seems we try to glorify our existence by creating religion and holding these beliefs so we feel that everything we do has a meaning.
Now that isn't to say that I think you are less than me because you believe, it is just how you feel and what you have faith in. I have no problems with people that are religious just as long as you don't try to convert me, because I am not gonig to try to get you to drop your faith.
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Post by potthole on Jun 24, 2008 21:28:30 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this. Can one really say that an atheist really believes there's no God? I mean right then and there, to deny there is a God must mean that they believe there is indeed a God, they just choose to not acknowledge Him.
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Post by providencecrow on Jun 24, 2008 21:43:01 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this. Can one really say that an atheist really believes there's no God? I mean right then and there, to deny there is a God must mean that they believe there is indeed a God, they just choose to not acknowledge Him. Not really, i mean i look at it this way. Experimentation and investigation through out the years have yet to prove any remote chance of life after death, or of any kind of creator. If somewhere along the line someone finds true evidence of any kind of god or creator, then i will consider the evidence. I dont "choose not to acknowledge him", when there is no proof that there is anything to acknowledge in the first place. |
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Post by potthole on Jun 24, 2008 21:51:08 GMT -5
Not really, i mean i look at it this way. Experimentation and investigation through out the years have yet to prove any remote chance of life after death, or of any kind of creator. If somewhere along the line someone finds true evidence of any kind of god or creator, then i will consider the evidence. I dont "choose not to acknowledge him", when there is no proof that there is anything to acknowledge in the first place. I guess this is where personal definitions come into play. When I read this comment by you, it says to me that you acknowledge there is a God, but just lack enough proof to decide to follow him. |
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Post by providencecrow on Jun 24, 2008 21:56:36 GMT -5
i think youre confusing me acknowledging a god exists in some fashion with acknowledging other peoples concept of a god. I havn't exactly been living in a cave or anything, i know that the US is majority christians, and i know what they believe god is. A religion is a real tangible thing i can see in plain sight, any interpretation of what god is however is not. What youre describing is agnostic, which acknowledges that there might be something. All i acknowledge is i was born, i am alive right now, i will die whenever, and afterwards i will rot and hopefully turn into some oil that can be used for $2,000,000 a gallon gasoline in the future
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Post by potthole on Jun 24, 2008 22:05:35 GMT -5
Point taken. Religion is a field where I really wish I could better put into words what I feel and believe.
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Post by Zig on Jun 25, 2008 0:59:40 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this. Can one really say that an atheist really believes there's no God? I mean right then and there, to deny there is a God must mean that they believe there is indeed a God, they just choose to not acknowledge Him. I don't believe in your god any more than you believe in the old Greek or Norse deities, but you would never say "I believe in Odin and Zeus, I just choose not to acknowledge them." |
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Post by speedbump on Jun 25, 2008 14:51:08 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this. Can one really say that an atheist really believes there's no God? I mean right then and there, to deny there is a God must mean that they believe there is indeed a God, they just choose to not acknowledge Him. I don't believe in your god any more than you believe in the old Greek or Norse deities, but you would never say "I believe in Odin and Zeus, I just choose not to acknowledge them." At least Zeus kicked ass. "Lightning Bolt!" |
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Post by The Biff Lebowski on Jun 25, 2008 14:53:01 GMT -5
Wiiiiiiiiizard! Who summoned The Wizz.......oh it's you guys.
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Post by wienerpoopie on Jun 25, 2008 14:57:42 GMT -5
Wiiiiiiiiizard! Who summoned The Wizz.......oh it's you guys.  |
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Post by Kate on Jun 25, 2008 15:08:34 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this. Can one really say that an atheist really believes there's no God? I mean right then and there, to deny there is a God must mean that they believe there is indeed a God, they just choose to not acknowledge Him. Wishful thinking, Potthole. Athiests don't believe a God exists. They do not subconsciously think that he exists and ignores it, they actually and truly believe that science created everything and that the god(s) are made up by the ancient people that made up stories about a creator. I see how much both sides make sense, so I call myself agnostic for now. |
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Post by Zig on Jun 25, 2008 16:55:39 GMT -5
Athiests don't believe a God exists. They do not subconsciously think that he exists and ignores it, they actually and truly believe that science created everything and that the god(s) are made up by the ancient people that made up stories about a creator. What what? |
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Post by providencecrow on Jun 25, 2008 17:06:12 GMT -5
Yeah i'm confused too, since when has science ever claimed to create anything.
Law of conservation of matter: Matter can neither be created or destroyed.
Law of conservation of energy: Energy can neither be created or destroyed.
Quite simply: I have no clue what "Created" the world, universe, et al, and im perfectly content with an "I have no idea" until some evidence explains otherwise.
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Post by Zig on Jun 25, 2008 17:12:30 GMT -5
We have a pretty good idea what created the world. Gravity played a big role in that. It's the universe, and more specifically what came before the big bang, that we're clueless about because we have no way to gather any information or evidence from before that point. Although I'm assuming you knew that and I'm being bothersome about semantics.
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Post by providencecrow on Jun 25, 2008 17:37:53 GMT -5
We have a pretty good idea what created the world. Gravity played a big role in that. It's the universe, and more specifically what came before the big bang, that we're clueless about because we have no way to gather any information or evidence from before that point. Although I'm assuming you knew that and I'm being bothersome about semantics. damn straight you are haha, and you obviously knew exactly what i was saying so you can tell me how my taint look |
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Post by Zig on Jun 26, 2008 0:02:50 GMT -5
It looks smooth in the groove and without a hair to spare.
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Post by cassierae on Jun 26, 2008 10:22:39 GMT -5
I've stayed away from this thread because I didn't know what else to say but looks like everyone else is hitting it on the head. Atheists aren't mad and deny God because their lives are bad, they just simply can't fathom realistically that a deity created the universe and rules over us. Hell, I see more evidence of UFO's and ghosts then I do that God is looking down on us...but thats just me.
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Post by hotzester on Jun 26, 2008 10:28:28 GMT -5
But see, Cassierae, that's faith. You don't necessarily have tangible evidence, but you just still know in your heart that there's something more.
And for the record, I don't think atheists are angry either. Whatver you believe, even if you believe there's no higher power, I respect you for having a belief.
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Post by cassierae on Jun 26, 2008 10:30:44 GMT -5
Well theres nothing to believe in so why make something up out of nothing?! It's ridiculous to me...but to each his own.
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ahole
Eric Zane's huge nose
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Post by ahole on Jun 26, 2008 10:31:42 GMT -5
Hey, if that's your thing, that's cool. Personally, I could never be an athiest. I'd much rather believe in something and be wrong than NOT believe in it and be wrong. lol Good 'ol Pascal's Wager. It always surfaces when the subject of Atheism is brought up. |
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ahole
Eric Zane's huge nose
15%
Posts: 45
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Post by ahole on Jun 26, 2008 10:39:49 GMT -5
What I'm saying is this - In a nutshell, because despite what our post counts may say, none of us REALLY have enough time to debate it properly.... Science can never actually disprove religion. Faith is defined as "belief that is not based on proof". (This is one definition, anyway.) Science may say "People evolved from ants", but faith says "I know that's what you say, but I believe in something else." In the end, one of us will be proven wrong. The flaw is that science is not infallible. Some scientists say that my SUV is creating global warming. Others do not. Some scientists said the earth is flat. But then science changed it's mind and decided that it was round. To the contrary, faith hasn't so much as batted in eye in over 2000 years. I like what Christopher Hitchens has to say about religion. "What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." Science didn't "change it's mind" about the Earth being flat, evidence proved that the Earth was round, so Science accepted that evidence. Atheists shouldn't have to provide scientific evidence that there is no God, the religious should have to provide scientific evidence that there is a God. Americans typically demonize Atheists because of what they don't understand, and what they don't want to attempt to understand. |
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