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Post by xxsloshxx on Jun 24, 2008 13:27:12 GMT -5
Ok guys. After having a conversation with my wife she said something that kinda struck me as odd. She said that in order for kids to be saved you have to make them fear hell. I've never been one for scaring someone into religion. Let alone our own children. I believe it should be a choice.
Anyways, the fact that she said you have to scare your kids into religion just kinda hurt. Then I got to thinking that it's sorta like "In Home Terrorism". So I went and looked up a definition of terrorism and it said this...
terrorism
noun
the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
That to me sounds like what was said to me as a kid and what will happen to our daughter when she grows up.
The threat of violence (hell), for religious goals. In Home Terrorism
Any thoughts? Comments? Helpful words of encouragement?
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Post by dasbow on Jun 24, 2008 13:32:55 GMT -5
I'd say that definition implies that the terrorizer (or terrorist, if you prefer) is perpetrating or threating to perpetrate violence. Pointing out the threat, real or perceived, is not the same thing. In fact, one could argue that it's helpful.
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Post by The Biff Lebowski on Jun 24, 2008 13:33:01 GMT -5
I think your wife is incorrect. Whatever religion you practice should be based in love. Using fear will cause children to become at first curious about the dark side of life and then eventually resentful and rebellious.
Showing them love draws them in and even if they stray from it they will associate love with their faith. People, no matter how angry or bitter, desire to love and be loved. It's as big a need as air, water, and food.
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Post by The Biff Lebowski on Jun 24, 2008 13:34:13 GMT -5
Pointing out the threat, real or perceived, is not the same thing. In fact, one could argue that it's helpful. In small doses, yes, but not as the cornerstone of a faith. |
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Post by xxsloshxx on Jun 24, 2008 13:35:25 GMT -5
I know and her church never actually preaches on Bible stories that I was raised on. All my daughter will know is the vengeful God. Not the loving, caring God that I grew up with.
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Post by vsangelchick on Jun 24, 2008 13:39:38 GMT -5
Religion is about beliefs...and faith. For example- I believe that no one is perfect, and that everyone deserves to go to hell and be punished for eternity. I also believe that because my God sent a perfect being (his Son) to take my place and punishment, I can avoid this eternal torment through my faith in Him. I do fear hell, I believe it exsists, and I have a way to stay out. It is through the love of my creator. Tell your child about your beliefs, teach them what you believe...scaring them isn't necessary. Force shouldn't be used where faith is concerned.
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Post by vsangelchick on Jun 24, 2008 13:42:46 GMT -5
Teaching one side only is like abstinence-only sex ed. You hear all the bad things, and only have one option to avoid them. Although it is the best option, it's not the only one....and ill-equipping someone that way is just plain wrong.
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Post by xxsloshxx on Jun 24, 2008 13:52:49 GMT -5
Tell your child about your beliefs, teach them what you believe...scaring them isn't necessary. Force shouldn't be used where faith is concerned. Well it's too bad I don't believe in God. But I do believe in not forcing your children into anything. Also not scaring them into getting saved. Thanks for your help though. |
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Post by The Biff Lebowski on Jun 24, 2008 13:54:18 GMT -5
Your wife is a fire and brimstone Christian and you're an athiest/agnostic? Wow.
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Post by Derek on Jun 24, 2008 14:18:10 GMT -5
Your wife is a fire and brimstone Christian and you're an athiest/agnostic? Wow. In my opinion, common religious beliefs are part of the basis for a healthy marriage, and I am asking you in all honesty, how do you do it? |
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Post by speedbump on Jun 24, 2008 15:03:01 GMT -5
About 37% of marriages are mixed religious beliefs, according to USA today.
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Post by Zig on Jun 24, 2008 15:12:53 GMT -5
I'd say that definition implies that the terrorizer (or terrorist, if you prefer) is perpetrating or threating to perpetrate violence. Pointing out the threat, real or perceived, is not the same thing. In fact, one could argue that it's helpful. I deplore fear tactics and religious indoctrination as much as anyone, but I think this is a correct distinction to make. It's a bad thing to do, but it doesn't really fit the definition of terrorism. Although if you call it "In Home Terrorism" like you have been doing, then that's a new term and can be distinct from the other definition of terrorism, so I'd say it's applicable. |
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Post by providencecrow on Jun 24, 2008 16:49:30 GMT -5
I consider all religion taught to children before they are old enough to make an informed decision, not necessarily terrorism, but definitely not a good thing. I'd love a society where nobody told anyone about ANY religions until they are 18, then people would actually be able to make their own decisions on the matter.
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Post by vsangelchick on Jun 24, 2008 19:04:35 GMT -5
So are you now saying that no one can make informed decisions before the age of 18? What about "what sport would you rather play?" or "are you planning on gong to college or not?" I think it's ignorant to think that passing on morals and beliefs is bad. Do you let children run lawless until they can make informed decisions? I'm not saying anyone should force something on their children, but it's stupid to avoid an education on what's there. My brother's girlfriend has a 5 year old daughter who already asks "who made God?" Children are smarter than you give them credit for.
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Post by dasbow on Jun 24, 2008 20:16:51 GMT -5
Pointing out the threat, real or perceived, is not the same thing. In fact, one could argue that it's helpful. In small doses, yes, but not as the cornerstone of a faith. Well not as a cornerstone, no. Not really even a building block. I was just trying to draw a distinction between what is and isn't terrorism, and why it doesn't pertain to the subject, in my opinion. I'm most definitely not a fire and brimstone type, hardly religious at all, so I wouldn't go the Hell-Fire and Damnation route myself. I just wouldn't call it terrorism. |
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Post by providencecrow on Jun 24, 2008 21:50:43 GMT -5
So are you now saying that no one can make informed decisions before the age of 18? What about "what sport would you rather play?" or "are you planning on gong to college or not?" I think it's ignorant to think that passing on morals and beliefs is bad. Do you let children run lawless until they can make informed decisions? I'm not saying anyone should force something on their children, but it's stupid to avoid an education on what's there. My brother's girlfriend has a 5 year old daughter who already asks "who made God?" Children are smarter than you give them credit for. Well 18 was an example, if youd rather 13, fine. My whole point in the first place was this: Every religion in the world thinks that they are correct, so isn't it kind of strange that people tend to take on the same religion as either their parents or the majority of the people around them? If every religion claims to be right, and the vast majority do say that non-believers can find their way and accept that particular religion, then we would more likely see such a correlation of environment to religion and people wouldnt automatically follow a particular religion just because its been in their head since before they could remember anything. You know why that would never work? Because if you took the average 15 year old who had never heard of the bible, who had no knowledge of who or what jesus was, the concept of heaven and hell etc.. etc... and handed him a bible, there is no way in hell any rational person would after reading it go "This all makes perfect sense, this is exactly what im looking for". And it's not so much the children i dont give credit to by the way, they indeed can be clever, its more the parents im worried about. |
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Post by The Biff Lebowski on Jun 24, 2008 21:59:41 GMT -5
What good would faith be if you didn't believe you were right?
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Post by vsangelchick on Jun 24, 2008 22:46:35 GMT -5
If everything made perfect sense.....we'd be perfect beings....that is why we can engage in intelligent conversation about beliefs. I still have questions, which is why I study, I am growing in my faith. I do not think I have all of the answers, but I have faith that if I look, I can find them. Every growing, ever learning, until the day I leave the earth.
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ahole
Eric Zane's huge nose
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Post by ahole on Jun 26, 2008 10:47:00 GMT -5
I know and her church never actually preaches on Bible stories that I was raised on. All my daughter will know is the vengeful God. Not the loving, caring God that I grew up with. You should make up a new God, that is even more loving and caring than your God. It worked really well for Christians, because lets face it, the God of the Old Testament was a pretty vengeful God. The New Testament God, on the other hand, is mostly hugs and love. |
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Post by providencecrow on Jun 26, 2008 16:59:47 GMT -5
You should make up a new God, that is even more loving and caring than your God. It worked really well for Christians, because lets face it, the God of the Old Testament was a pretty vengeful God. The New Testament God, on the other hand, is mostly hugs and love. Why do i need to make up a new God when we have the fresh faced Xenu to look towards. I wonder if Christianity would have been attacked to death like Scientology has if the internet, TV, and radio all existed during the conception of the new testament. My guess is wed be majority Jewish, if anything, if they had the communication network we have now back in the early days of the church. |
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Post by lovegrenade on Jun 27, 2008 8:00:42 GMT -5
You should make up a new God, that is even more loving and caring than your God. It worked really well for Christians, because lets face it, the God of the Old Testament was a pretty vengeful God. The New Testament God, on the other hand, is mostly hugs and love. Why do i need to make up a new God when we have the fresh faced Xenu to look towards. I wonder if Christianity would have been attacked to death like Scientology has if the internet, TV, and radio all existed during the conception of the new testament. My guess is wed be majority Jewish, if anything, if they had the communication network we have now back in the early days of the church. Xenu's a little too expensive for my taste. Kirstie Alley has given them over $5 Million so they would correct her Fat Cow Syndrome. It's unfortunate that we don't have "miracles" like they did back in the early days of Christianity. Oh wait, we do. It's Jesus!!!!  |
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